My proposed 'solution' is to make Trials 3, include duplicates of all currently existing tracks, and host them on their own server with the new tracks. You can apply any new game mechanics that you'd like while still supporting Trials 2 separately, and thus keeping the scoring system intact for late adopters.

If it turns out that the controls/physics/legacy tracks aren't any different, then you could even allow the migration of existing records for the legacy tracks that aren't affected by the glitch. I'd buy this game, and I'd probably still play the hell out of the old tracks while indulging in the new ones.

I realize it's silly for someone outside of your team to make these kinds of sweeping arguments, and I'm probably missing a billion nuances. But the idea of a new Trials with 'support' for old tracks and play mechanics isn't bad, is it? It seems to kill all of these birds with one stone, and we all get an awesome new game, and you get our money. How sweet is that?

+1

Respect. I challenge you to find any game developer who handles things as well as RedLynx. First of all, how many games still get any support at all this long after release? Let alone have developers actively watching the forums. Oh, and post this kind of flamebait crap on any other game forum where a dev sees it, and I guarantee it'll get deleted or locked. That's what I'd do if I was in their shoes.

And yes, it's a perfectly reasonable response. There's a big difference between a bug and an exploit - fortunately, RedLynx knows the difference and isn't willy-nilly banning people who wouldn't understand why. Don't like it? Go learn a programing language and make your own game... see if it comes out without any bugs.

look how impressive this boy is; swearing on a forum

there are many frustrating things about all of our favourite games, things we would have changed if possible. but disrespecting the people who have lovingly crafted these games that we have enjoyed for hours and hours is disgusting. you should be grateful for what they have given you, rather than mouthing of because you have ideas that havent been implemented. this applies to all games and all developers but the fact that we are talking about Redlynx makes this even worse. i am not sucking up to the devs in any way but i think most people would agree that RL do more for their community than most developers and for them to hear that from a member of their community is probably very disappointing.

Let's not forget though that Alessandr0 loves this game. Yes he worded some things wrong but it was for a good cause. Many of us feel Trials HD, while still a good game, has nothing on T2SE, and look at what's happening in the THD world. The game already has more tracks than T2SE think, not sure) and while that's great for those who like THD, we sometimes can't help but feel THD is our enemy, in lack of better words.

65 tracks for the $10 or so I bought it for is a bargain, but imo the game is just so good that I, and many others, want more always!

I agree with Norf about what he said about what I said in my first post and the subsequent ragefest.

I love this game, I've wasted probably 450 hours playing it and I know I'll be playing it for longer.



Tough one, but if I had to go for one specific company I'd say Naughty Dog their Uncharted 2 Multiplayer. They've spent nearly a year releasing updates, fixing glitches which make the game unfair, like getting through walls into places you can shoot anyone on the map when they can't do anything back.

I would say EA but SecuROM sucks balls.

However there are plenty of game developers who handle things better than RedLynx.



Diablo II and its expansion. Yes, they're owned by Blizzard, one of the richest video game producers in the world but that's not the point, Diablo II is now 10 years old, and they released a patch in March, this year, 9 years and 9 months after the game was released.



EA, Naughty Dog and the dudes on the Just Cause 2 forums get a ton of shit like this and the only thread I've seen locked are threads like "Help me" where the problem's been solved. Read the Just Cause 2 forum, one of the stickies in there has 50 pages of people complaining about JC2's patch which was only locked when the patch was released. Naughty Dog gets a ton of flak for its unfair multiplayer matching system, stupid skeletons and boosters that let you see people through walls. Those threads are generally active until they turn into an all-out flame war.



Freedom of speech has a place even on the internet.



Yes, there is. A bug is an unintended defect in the game from improper testing or someone pratting around and breaking your program or whatever. An exploit is using that bug for your own benefit.

For example: myBB had an SQL injection which allowed me and some American dude to output everyone's passwords, email addresses and the rest of the information they submitted when they signed up to the forum in their signatures. The forum in question was a random site owned by some gimp I didn't like much. The bug here was the SQL injection vulnerability, they didn't intend for it to be in the release, but it was. I exploited this bug to completely take over the website, got root, stole databases, took over the forums, that sort of stuff. That's the difference between a bug and an exploit.

If you're wondering I gave the admin their Super Admin account back, because I'm nice, and told them to update their forum software when the next version was released... White hat hacking with a touch of black hat. Grey hat? Whatever.



As it happens I'm currently learning how to program with the intention of making my own game. Well, if it ever happens it'll be open-source so if I'm unable to fix a bug for whatever reason at least one of the five people who will actually play my game will be able to.

All software has bugs, at no point did I say otherwise. It's the inability to patch the boxed editions that annoyed me because that one cock-up forced 120,000 to accept people were going to cheat on the Wheelie tracks. Or was it just me? Either way, I was affected so this is a serious issue.</joke> But the thing is the Wheelie glitch has caused a divide in the community, however small, just like Trials HD did. Don't turn this into a "But TrialsHD is the most amazing game on XBLA" because I truly hate it.

RedLynx's delay in creating a workaround was somewhat irritating too. Before AkaM had the epic idea of removing the Wheelie tracks from Global Rankings people had to either hate the glitchers and sacrifice high ranks (where you need all of the points you can get), or join the glitchers and get their #10 global.

Christ's sake, I fail at using the quote function... All of these edits have been removing quote brackets that weren't meant to be there. >.>

Although your argument is valid your testing seems to be a bit... Off. You had 1.09 in the works when you released the boxed versions and didn't think to make an updater that would work with the patch you were making?

Or, if you hadn't started on the patch at that point, you didn't make the updater check for updates in a separate text file/directory or however the updater works so it would be compatible with any future patch releases?

Edit: Bugger, clicked Submit after quoting sebbbi without writing my replies. Yay.

How difficult would a specific patch that backs up the voice-overs and localised text to an alternative directory, patches the game normally, puts those files back and change the version number to make the game aware it's just been updated? I don't know how the updates work, I assume it just overwrites the files in the PAK files but I can't open the PAK files to see... I guess that's the point though.

If it requires an MD5 hashcheck to validate the files that were updated then I can see the problems but they only have 36^32 possibilities, so it's not impossible to cause a hash collision and trick the game into thinking it's validated that way. Surely there's a workaround that can be employed.

I'm drunk right now but this is my rant.

RedLynx have worked their nuts off for this game and whatever happens I think people are just jealous of all the skill that some people have because of how they can controll a simple bike and get to know the bikes better than anyone in the gaming development themselves, I know how they work and s... I know how to make tracks to all these guys ninja style status's but doesn't mean they have to s... on the reputation that the company has worked so hard off to make all this happen, if it wasn't for them, we wouldn't be here now ranting or even talking about it.

There's no mustard on my bike so get on with it.

Yes.

Only kidding. But...



Does this mean you are going to make a Trials 3? =D

No that means that they are never going to make a Trials for PC anymore and that is why the problem will not occur in future

That is one of the most awesome comments I have ever seen in my life on the internet. You, sir, are full of win.

well first off: redlynx doesn't suck, they are quite awesome making probably the greatest game ever imo. I feel that all this we need another patch is bull**** as it wouldn't change much except wheelies. The wheelie tracks is not very fun, maybe because of the glitch.

I just want to say that i love t2se and you guys made a awesome job creating it. And if this was your first it is very well done.

also your support is very good and you really react to what top players and the community says, not many games that you have this big a say as a player as in t2se.

I've only played the latest patch, and i think it's pretty balanced and the wheelie solution was the best solution imo.

Everybody have fun and good luck:)

Nicely said Degn

I disagree. Pretty much every game I've played have developers browsing the forums looking for complaints that they can put right. EA is the only exception, they seem to actively ignore people saying SecuROM sucks and think "the community love it, let's incorporate it more!" And Atari do that to some extent too. But here's a list of game I've played where the community get a say.

• Age of Empires/Age of Mythology
  
• Supreme Commander & Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance (although everything the community wanted in Supreme Commander 2 was completely ignored and they did the exact opposite so new players found it easier)
  
• Command and Conquer (before EA started making it)
  
• Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2 and their respective expansions
  
• The Witcher
  
• Black and White 1 and 2 and their respective expansions
  
• BioShock, sort of. They did the RedLynx thing and took everything the community wanted (even a level editor :O) and put it in BioShock 2.
  
• Total Annihilation, before Cavedog went dead, now the TA community releases updates based on what the community want fixed. How awesome is that?
  
• Fallout 3 and Oblivion, unofficial patches from members of the community, no idea what Bethesda are like when it comes to listening to people though. They fixed the ending in Fallout 3 so you can keep playing which everyone wanted so I count that.
  
• Half-Life 1 & 2, Team Fortress 2, Portal, Left 4 Dead 1 & 2 and Counter Strike. Yeah... Like I need to explain
  
• The Myth series
  
• Ratchet & Clank series
  
• Uncharted 2
  
• Resistance series
  
• Civilization series
  
• The Sims series

And that's the commercial games I own.

Open source games that listen to what people want

• Ummm, all of them, really. And they're free.

Hopefully this will shut people up when they say "but we get support when it's a cheap game" because if you Google enough you'll find free games where you get more support, donation boxes and t-shirts.

The
Way
Alessandro
Talks

Be aware players Redlynx is watching you!
Everytime you don´t look a trials rider is jumping across your window .

most of us know that. but theres always one...

Yeah this is getting a bit stupid imo. Redlynx do listen to us. There are even (almost) a handfull of user designed tracks in the game, and I know for a fact Jorma created my Birdcage in his free time. I've even sent support questions to Jorma on Facebook(!) and he has always responded promptly.

They always respond to threads where someone asks them a question, they've also given us dedicated players some power by making some of us moderators in the game chat. The game is cheap, it was their first real game, it's a very good game, cut them some slack on the minor mistakes seriously..

I never said RedLynx don't listen, I was commenting on Degn's post when he said not many game developers listen to what their customers say.

Maybe I didn't make it clear enough, so for clarification:

I never said RedLynx don't listen, I was commenting on Degn's post when he said not many game developers listen to what their customers say.

Fuuuuck yeahhhh.

Then what are you saying? From what ive skim read, its sounds like youre saying that 'RedLynx suck' just because you want a patch for T2SE that the developers have said is not possible. If thats the case then youre pathetic. Why not go on the Bungie forums and complain that you want a Ferrari Warthog?

like i said; this topic is a joke

I'm not gonna bore you by repeating what Godmil, Degn, Norfair already said, and what our drunken friend NovaDarkStorm tried to say .
So in a nutshell, this game is amazing and RedLynx rulez!

I accidentally closed my tab and lost my post and I can't be bothered to rewrite it, so I'll just carry on from where I left off.



Well, it started with me saying RedLynx suck for making versions of the game they didn't think about testing for updating which was a stupid move, hence the sucking, then it sort of changed somewhat when Degn said not many game companies pay this much attention to their customers.

Also, if you read the first post instead of skimming the thread you'd know what this thread is about.

Me raging about cheaters on the Wheelie tracks, but nobody sees them as cheaters because it's just a bug that they're deliberately exploiting for a better time, you know... Me taking the piss out of RedLynx's idea to go for more money by releasing what is clearly an improperly-tested version. There's arguments with Trialsaddict, there's moderation from sipe, there's comments from sebbbi, there's 57 posts... All-in-all this is a pretty cool thread.

No this is an ungrateful and idiotic thread. Youre happy with yourself because you got a reply from a developer after telling them 'they suck'? Fair enough some things about Trials can be frustrating, especially exploits, i get that (Underground shortcut on THD) but where's the use in consistently complaining and telling them they did it wrong when they blatantly know a hell of a lot more than you.

There is constructive criticism and there is being a tool for the sake of it. Be polite, have manners and use a 'Suggestion' thread. Or at least change the title of this thread... because clearly they dont suck, as they have created a game that youve become passionate enough about to start this thread in the first place.

Welcome to the Internet. The exit button is to the top-right of your current window if you find any of the content offensive or distasteful.



Although if you agree with what people say about the Wheelie glitch (that it takes skill and there's nothing wrong with it) then the same applies here... I doubt RedLynx meant for that to happen on that track so it's only a matter of time before they patch it, right?



About making video games, probably. About testing software to rule out bugs? Apparently not. I acted as a sort-of beta tester (that is, I wasn't asked to test the game, I played with the current releases and reported bugs I found) for the Spring Project which, although an RC is still playable with the right games.



"There is being a tool for the sake of it" - Read what I wrote under the first quote in this post.

"Because clearly they don't suck..." - I started a thread saying they suck to show my support of them? I like the game, though not as much as I used to since the community died, wheelie glitch was discovered and exploited, about 30 people got Top Dog they didn't deserve on W1 by beating the "real" #1 by cheating, the glitch was "patched" and then someone else got Top Dog on it by cheating. But that's not to say I hate the game, I just don't enjoy it anymore, beating records means less to me now because nobody is setting any good times, it took like a month for me to go from #15 to #16 on Dyn4 and longer than that to go from #16 to #20 on E3, for example.

But anyway, enough of this, I don't feel this post was offensive enough so to keep with my character:

Q: What's worse than 10 babies nailed to a tree?

A: One baby nailed to 10 trees.

who am i? no one special but heres my 2 cents anyways... >>>
Most companies do not offer support like this. Our support has been excellent by any means. It's completely arrogant to say anything else.

If you search the forums a bit, you will find that many players agree with me completely. We have had lots of praise because of our excellent support.
with this i have to agree. redlynx is the best developer on the planet and they do give us 90% or better of what we ask. i feel your pain allesandro i do,,, but . . >>> It's completely arrogant to say anything else.

With the useless symbols removed and grammar introduced:

RedLynx is the best developer on the planet and they do give us 90% or better of what we ask. I feel your pain Alessandr0, I do, but it's completely arrogant to say anything else.

How did you manage to spell my name wrong? It's in the quote tag, you could've either copied it and seen it has one L and two S's but you spelt it wrong, I mean come on. Nobody has ever spelt Alessandr0 right the first time they've typed it, it's ridiculous.

But anyway, moving onto the point (I retyped your post so it didn't rape my eyes every time I looked up to see what you'd written next)... Saying RedLynx is the best developer is more arrogant than me saying they aren't. You're putting aside the other thousand or so video game companies you've never even heard of to say a company you've played two games from is better?

Anyway, reading the forum there was one main thing that was asked for: The level editor!

And enhanced replay functions allowing rewinding and stuff like that.

We didn't get either of those. So far it's 0%. BRB, reading the forum. Yes, I am doing this, get over your shock.

Edit: After going through this thread I've decided not to bother calculating. The only implemented change from that thread is "Driver" to "Rider." They didn't even fix the Swedish flag. I mean come on, how can you call them the greatest developers in the world when they can't differentiate between blue and green? And after being told about it?